I think Americans (on the left, right, and center, regardless of race) are ready to support a populist party that prioritizes policies that are favorable towards members of the working class.
Taxing the rich. A strong FTC making big anti-trust moves. Improving affordability of (pharma) drugs & improving the pipeline for generics. Keeping banks from screwing over customers with outrageous fees & other excellent CFPB pursuits.
The horrors about to happen as education, science, weather, disaster, space, aid, and other systems are all roundly sabotaged doesn't look at all promising to me. I think we were getting a ton of value for a very very little amount of money (if you consider total spending) in these areas, that is hugely responsible for driving America's economy in countless ways. Going horror movie slasher against Medicare also seems really obviously crazy bad.
If the problem is that "tax the rich" is taxing the middle class & poor, it wasn't actually popularism. It's also not what happened under Biden nor Obama nor what Kamala's plan was!!
Trying to win with good policy alone is nightmare mode hard.
The Democrats have been utterly unwilling to go towards popularism– to calling out the capitalist classes–as the problem, as exploiters.
Also the Democrats havent gotten a ton of chance to actually do much. The last time they had a trifecta was 2011. We got the ACA, which Dems attempted very very hard to make bipartisan, and ended up passing on their own anyways after making concession after concession in failed attempts to woo in some Republicans. The ultra conservative supreme court and court shopped to high hell 5th district have also kept any possible progress from happening. Running on talk alone is hard, in a system set up to only enable obstruction & de-governance.
Do center parties work? I guess the problem is center what, I think it would be hard for people to agree on what Center means, I'm probably relatively center compared to some set of ideals, but certainly to left socially for a lot of people. . Center also somewhat implies a balance of two sides, but there aren't just two sides. Is FP center? Center as in halfway between the Democratic Party and Republican party? Center as in halfway between the women's studies department at Reed College and Alex Jones? In which case sometimes I think modern centrists are nuttier than either of the two sides.
I’d like to think of it as the fusion of the evershrinking rational parts of the existing parties who want to get mutually advantageous things done in a productive, constructive way. We can happily ditch the extreme Left and fascist, religious and libertarian Rights.
It's mostly discarding the insane ideas of both the Democrats and Republicans. What's left isn't sexy or cutting edge, but it's probably better policies than the more extreme platforms...
The thing is that nobody actually wants a centrist party. There are 2 problems I see:
1. The leaders now pushing for a centrist party are the same people who got us to this point of polarization. Whether by actively exploiting it (Musk) or by failing to recognize people wanted change (centrist democrats, small government republicans etc).
2. Voting is a hassle, having to wait in line or go to the drop off box, or deal with paperwork with mail-in ballots. Plenty of people may have very strong opinions when they get riled up, they may hate or fear the opposition, or talk abou how much they care about civic duty, but that doesn't always translate into actual votes.
The second problem is why highly motivated supporters are more important than walking on eggshells around people outside the base. Best example I can think of is Mamdani (and I think this applies to Trump's 2016 campaign too). He has a lot of poralizing ideas, and there are vanishingly few people who agree with everything he says.
So you'd think maybe Cuomo would be the obvious victor, since people knew him and he wasn't really doing anything on the campaign trail, staying quiet with a cery curated message. But not only did Mamdani beat him, but more people voted for Mamdani in a 5 way primary than voted republican in the last general mayoral election.
Trump was always anti-tech. He just promised big tech all kinds of de-regulation and so on, but his budget bill takes a ton away from big tech.
Trump got his (allegedly) hacked election and entry to the wild west world of crypto, from which he has made billions. And goodbye, back to his maga anti-intellectual base.
3 points by k310 1 day ago | parent | context | prev | next [–] | on: Elon Musk says Senate bill would destroy jobs and ...
You bought it; you own it.
Tech bro's were used, then abused.
Let's ask Michael Moritz.
Musk vs Trump is a cautionary tale for Silicon Valley [0]
Story by Michael Moritz
The writer is a longtime Silicon Valley investor, former board member of PayPal and an investor in SpaceX
> While Musk has left Washington with his reputation tarnished and his businesses impaired, the president’s family has inked deals for new hotels and golf courses around the world. Membership fees at Mar-a-Lago, his Floridian sanctuary, ballooned last year. And he is milking the enthusiasm of his supporters with his own controversial memecoin, launched days before his inauguration.
> One word of advice for those in Silicon Valley who followed Musk’s lead and sided with Trump. Leave. Don’t delude yourself that you are working to make crypto a part of global finance, minimising artificial intelligence regulation, helping start-up companies or protecting the interests of Silicon Valley. You have no sway. You are just cannon fodder.
> Is it time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle?
Where "the 80% in the middle" are assumed to agree with whatever Musk's political opinions happen to be today.
I think Americans (on the left, right, and center, regardless of race) are ready to support a populist party that prioritizes policies that are favorable towards members of the working class.
> policies that are favorable towards members of the working class
Such as?
What positions will this party take on other (eg "culture war") issues?
Taxing the rich. A strong FTC making big anti-trust moves. Improving affordability of (pharma) drugs & improving the pipeline for generics. Keeping banks from screwing over customers with outrageous fees & other excellent CFPB pursuits.
Taxing "the rich" always seems to end up taxing the middle/working class instead.
I think most of us would prefer the spending just get killed at this point, whatever that takes.
The horrors about to happen as education, science, weather, disaster, space, aid, and other systems are all roundly sabotaged doesn't look at all promising to me. I think we were getting a ton of value for a very very little amount of money (if you consider total spending) in these areas, that is hugely responsible for driving America's economy in countless ways. Going horror movie slasher against Medicare also seems really obviously crazy bad.
If the problem is that "tax the rich" is taxing the middle class & poor, it wasn't actually popularism. It's also not what happened under Biden nor Obama nor what Kamala's plan was!!
I personally agree, but you’re just describing moderate Democrats, and they aren’t exactly doing gangbusters lately.
Trying to win with good policy alone is nightmare mode hard.
The Democrats have been utterly unwilling to go towards popularism– to calling out the capitalist classes–as the problem, as exploiters.
Also the Democrats havent gotten a ton of chance to actually do much. The last time they had a trifecta was 2011. We got the ACA, which Dems attempted very very hard to make bipartisan, and ended up passing on their own anyways after making concession after concession in failed attempts to woo in some Republicans. The ultra conservative supreme court and court shopped to high hell 5th district have also kept any possible progress from happening. Running on talk alone is hard, in a system set up to only enable obstruction & de-governance.
While I think there is a need for a center party, Musk is the last person I’d trust with its parentage.
Musk is anti union. Do you think an anti union position can be described as centrist?
No, I don’t. I believe Musk used the term ‘center’ in misdescribing his efforts but he’s hardly the definer of it.
Do center parties work? I guess the problem is center what, I think it would be hard for people to agree on what Center means, I'm probably relatively center compared to some set of ideals, but certainly to left socially for a lot of people. . Center also somewhat implies a balance of two sides, but there aren't just two sides. Is FP center? Center as in halfway between the Democratic Party and Republican party? Center as in halfway between the women's studies department at Reed College and Alex Jones? In which case sometimes I think modern centrists are nuttier than either of the two sides.
I’d like to think of it as the fusion of the evershrinking rational parts of the existing parties who want to get mutually advantageous things done in a productive, constructive way. We can happily ditch the extreme Left and fascist, religious and libertarian Rights.
I can't help but notice a distinct lack of actual policy coming from the people who advocate for a "center" party.
It's mostly discarding the insane ideas of both the Democrats and Republicans. What's left isn't sexy or cutting edge, but it's probably better policies than the more extreme platforms...
Still no actual policies.
Musk is a centrist in the way that Albert Speer was a centrist.
This will split MAGA and Republicans apart. Go for it! Let oceans of money flow.
Political parties suck money, time and energy. It's one of those "harder than it looks" things. It's not like running a PAC or a company.
It would be funny if this is what ended citizens united.
The thing is that nobody actually wants a centrist party. There are 2 problems I see:
1. The leaders now pushing for a centrist party are the same people who got us to this point of polarization. Whether by actively exploiting it (Musk) or by failing to recognize people wanted change (centrist democrats, small government republicans etc).
2. Voting is a hassle, having to wait in line or go to the drop off box, or deal with paperwork with mail-in ballots. Plenty of people may have very strong opinions when they get riled up, they may hate or fear the opposition, or talk abou how much they care about civic duty, but that doesn't always translate into actual votes.
The second problem is why highly motivated supporters are more important than walking on eggshells around people outside the base. Best example I can think of is Mamdani (and I think this applies to Trump's 2016 campaign too). He has a lot of poralizing ideas, and there are vanishingly few people who agree with everything he says.
So you'd think maybe Cuomo would be the obvious victor, since people knew him and he wasn't really doing anything on the campaign trail, staying quiet with a cery curated message. But not only did Mamdani beat him, but more people voted for Mamdani in a 5 way primary than voted republican in the last general mayoral election.
Watch next starship as it goes up in flames...
Trump was always anti-tech. He just promised big tech all kinds of de-regulation and so on, but his budget bill takes a ton away from big tech.
Trump got his (allegedly) hacked election and entry to the wild west world of crypto, from which he has made billions. And goodbye, back to his maga anti-intellectual base.
Posted yesterday. (my goodness, the OP was flagged!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44409844
3 points by k310 1 day ago | parent | context | prev | next [–] | on: Elon Musk says Senate bill would destroy jobs and ...
You bought it; you own it.
Tech bro's were used, then abused.
Let's ask Michael Moritz.
Musk vs Trump is a cautionary tale for Silicon Valley [0]
Story by Michael Moritz
The writer is a longtime Silicon Valley investor, former board member of PayPal and an investor in SpaceX
> While Musk has left Washington with his reputation tarnished and his businesses impaired, the president’s family has inked deals for new hotels and golf courses around the world. Membership fees at Mar-a-Lago, his Floridian sanctuary, ballooned last year. And he is milking the enthusiasm of his supporters with his own controversial memecoin, launched days before his inauguration.
> One word of advice for those in Silicon Valley who followed Musk’s lead and sided with Trump. Leave. Don’t delude yourself that you are working to make crypto a part of global finance, minimising artificial intelligence regulation, helping start-up companies or protecting the interests of Silicon Valley. You have no sway. You are just cannon fodder.
[0] https://www.ft.com/content/c779b3b6-e989-4277-91fd-d72468291...
https://archive.is/hnPQC#selection-136.5-136.6
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