Ask HN: Quit Stimulants, Productivity Suffering
Hi HN - Senior SWE at FAANG who has basically stayed afloat via stimulants which gradually ruined my life and emotional well being.
I finally broke the chains and more or less replaced these bad habits with healthier ones, which has been great. However, I can barely function at work and my contributions have dropped to near zero. It’s causing me immense stress in a culture that is cutthroat.
How can I rebuild a normal way of working?
There is an interesting question underlying this scenario - is working in a cutthroat culture "normal" in the first place? If you needed stimulants to succeed there, and are trying to now live a healthier life, does that job even fit in that healthier life? Or should the answer to your question be more along the lines of finding a new role where your productivity meshes better with the expectations?
I stopped taking amphetamine stimulants for similar reasons and with a similar outcome.
I ended up getting a prescription for Provigil (modafinil), a non-amphetamine stimulant.
It’s not nearly as dopaminergic as amphetamine, decidedly non-euphoric, but more motivationally stimulating than caffeine.
I found that the dose response lends itself well to former addicts, where taking the recommended dosage (100mg for me) does not result in a “high” nor does taking 3-4x that dosage, and is quite unpleasant to do so.
As well as being long lived, a single dose lasting 10-12 hours, not a time release formulation mind you, reduces the moreish hunger of short duration stimulants.
I take provigil as well. I was wise enough to stop taking Adderall and Dexedrine when I ended my schooling. I never had a prescription, but these were easy enough to find. Provigil is not an every day tool for me, only once and a while, but it gets the job done.
That did nothing for me - I kinda theorize it can't compete with my caffeine usage ie I would have to drop caffeine to restart at a baseline of sorts... (Or I just got powder..)
I’ve read numerous anecdotal accounts that espouse this. Not discounting yours at all, as the precise mechanism of action of modafinil is not well understood despite decades of human testing [0][1]. From my limited understanding, it increases histamine, the effect opposite of anti-histamines like diphenhydramine.
[0]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15991923/ [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22640618/
Anecdotally, despite being a very subtle effect, in my specific set of circumstances, modafinil has been life changing.
How do you get a prescription for that? Is that an ADHD med?
My psychiatrist recommended it. I was around two years out from quitting a daily 60mg Vyvanse habit and still having a rough time. Unmotivated, brain fog, depressed, etc.
Effexor caused suicidal ideation, Strattera was too abusable, Wellbutrin worked ok at first but caused hives when I increased the dose to the recommended level.
Modafinil is more commonly prescribed for narcolepsy, or shift work sleep disorder, requiring a sleep study. But allows for off-label use at doctors discretion.
It has a fairly low addiction profile, which I was suspicious of given my history, but I don’t feel the need to take it every day, and usually abstain on weekends.
I also tried Nuvigil (armodafinil), which works similarly but for longer and at a lower dose. But it was a bit jagged, and overkill, I don’t need 16 hours of stimulation.
Were you taking stimulants for a condition (ADHD etc)?
Amphetamine Stimulants affect those with ADHD differently to neurotypical people, so use with much caution.
In the case of recreational or dependant use (non-medical use etc) Perhaps seek professional help. Additionally consider the pressures of a FAANG workplace and whether it is the right fit for you.
No matter the money, I could not work in a fast-paced, cutthroat environment. I need fair-paced and understanding etc
Reading r/decaf you see a lot of people saying it takes about 6 months to reach a new normal after years of daily caffeine use. The brain has to rebuild and recover. I'd imagine for stronger stimulants it will be similar. Maybe try to taper off?
Stimulants? Like coffee?
Or am I being really naive right now?
If it's anything stronger than coffee, here's my recommendation:
1. Wim Hof Method from time to time (it boosts adrelanine temporarily)
2. Exercise (boosts all kinds of stuff)
3. Breathing meditation to train your attention
He's almost certainly talking about amphetamines.
Thanks, me being naive then. My recommendations still stand as that is what I'd do as all 3 of them have stimulant-like effects.
Oh yeah, definitely good advice.
Have you considered talking with a mental health professional?
I ask because it sounds more nuanced than another person’s “it works on my machine” is likely to address.
And your employer probably provides an EAP benefit that covers it. This is why.
I haven't ingested stimulants since university, but a few surprising things put me in that familiar state of deep, almost euphoric concentration. I don't know why any of these work; it's up to you to determine how crazy I am.
1. NAC. I don't like this because it also seems to cause heartburn and blunts me.
2. Home brewed kefir. Overbrewing has the opposite effect, so you have to be diligent about changing the grains every 24 hours.
3. Saline + iodine + baby shampoo nasal rinse. The weirdest one, but I swear it's true. Literally clears the head.
All of these are relatively cheap and low risk.
Thanks. Benfotiamine 150 mg twice a day had stimulant-like effects on me during the first week or 2 of my taking it. (Now it just gives me more energy without any CNS-stimulant effects.)
What is NAC?
https://www.webmd.com/diet/health-benefits-nac
I would recommend going to some online NA or Smart Recovery meetings. At the levels you probably took it at (I think I’m making a good assumption here) it’s most likely prescription pill abuse - addiction. What you are feeling right now is withdrawal. You reinforced the behavior with working with a drug and now the drug is gone. This is the same thing people that get off any drug/alcohol are going through right now, and you will find solidarity and support in those groups.
There are literally online zoom meetings 24/7, google around. You don’t have to say anything, just listen.
I drink coffee that's a mix of 33% regular / 66% swiss-water decaf. It's the best of both worlds, you can keep yourself awake but you're not getting the huge highs and lows of regular coffee.
My flow has been massively stable since I started doing this.
Do you have ADHD? Maybe you should be using stimulants…
I don't have ADHD - stimulants make me a lot more productive until tolerance kicks in. It's easier to focus on boring tasks, and I'm high so work that normally isn't fun becomes fun.
Once the tolerance kicks in (1-2 weeks of use) the high becomes mild / nonexistant and it no longer boosts my productivity
Interesting. OK. I have ADHD and I don't feel anything resembling a "high." If anything, I feel normal and relaxed on stimulants. But it also makes me able to focus and work hard, and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I have professionally or personally without it. Not just my job, but my marriage too was falling apart prior to getting on medication. What you wrote in the original post could have been written by an ADHD person, in which case I would recommend staying on medication.
Idk, it's complicated. I think a lot of the moral handwringing about stimulant use is misguided and it shouldn't be stigmatized. But I'm somewhat biased in that stimulants literally saved my life, after I had been avoiding medication for years prior based on the stigma. I for sure have ADHD though.
Have you talked to a psychiatrist? You may have a serious mental condition that needs treatment, even if it isn't ADHD treated by amphetamine salts. Modafinil, maybe.
I think the easiest distinction is the high part. I assume you have never crushed up Ritalin and/or Adderall to snort (I have). The guys taking it non-medicinally get a clear high, and tolerance demands higher doses. The best/worst one is desoxyn. That stuff is heavenly, but so addictive. After scoring a bottle of it I decided that I was never going to take any amphetamine ever again.
From what I understand, ADHD folks do not get the high part, so the addiction risk is not there.
> You may have a serious mental condition that needs treatment
Maybe, but I wouldn't say serious. Just standard life malaise.
I have talked to a psych - he gave me a concerta prescription after talking for 20 minutes lol. That's the stimulant I'm talking about. It's basically super coffee that lasts all day, and like I said, the high is by far the best part.
Malaise can be due to an underlying condition causing a biochemical imbalance. Stimulants are often prescribed as a first line defense for good reasons, but you can go back and let them know why it isn’t working.
This. Do you feel "normal" when on stimulants? The average person feels like they smoked meth. If you feel your thoughts coming under control, it might be a sign (emphasis on might).
Go see a doctor urgently. If they say you don't have anything and should never take stimulants, see a therapist to learn to live with the reality of who you are and where you want to be.
Are you comfortable to say which stimulant that is?
Maybe change teams or even downlevel?
Start eating keto and get good sleep. Stay quiet and dont admit to lowered productivity, let the mistakes happen and be friendly.